Projection lenses for LF?

[Marley's Ghost]

Anyone ever tried using projector lenses for large format? I was hopping about on eBay last night, and on a whim bought an Aldis 18 1/2 inch projection lens for the princely sum of a fiver! It appears to be in good nick and an absolute monster nearly five inches in diameter with an aperture of about f5.6 or so ... of course no diaphragm or shutter being a barrel lens, but that's not really an issue ... if necessary I could slot the barrel and pop in Waterhouse stops ... but it looks a fascinating project. I'm guessing some sort of triplet with all sorts of optical flaws ... but it might make an interesting portrait lens.
One like this


If nothing else I've got myself a cool paperweight!

 

[Petrochemist]

I've tried briefly with a couple of very fast lenses that I think were made for TV projection.
This one is something like a 180mm f/1.3 or 150mm f/1.2
A challenging lens by Mike Kanssen, on Flickr

and this one - labeled Delta 77 - is quite a bit wider (I'm guessing 77mm) almost touching the ground glass at infinity (shown here from behind with the glass removed)
delta 77 - GG removed by Mike Kanssen, on Flickr

Such large lenses do become difficult for getting shutters, the easy option of a galli shutter isn't really fast enough at f/1.3 even using paper (iso ~6) indoors. None of the cameras I know with focal plane shutters can handle such big lenses. One day I'll get round to building a guillotine shutter for it (don't hold your breath it been on my to do list for years so far)

Paper apertures against the front element work reasonably well, so that at least isn't an issue.

For the moment using them for through the viewfinder type shooting is as far as I've got (with the delta 77)
delta 77 - deluxe & GG by Mike Kanssen, on Flickr

 

[Marley's Ghost]

Interesting ... the one coming to me is 18.5 inches or 470mm ... I shall be at the other end of the bellows extension I think. Shutters wise I built a prototype leaf shutter a couple of years ago ... with the intension of powering it with a stepper motor and controlling it with an Arduino for exposures from about 1/15 to lots of seconds. It's too small as is ... but I still have the CAD plans so I could scale it up.
Anyway ... I get ahead of myself.

 

[Ian Grant]

I have a 1930s Aldis-Butcher 12" Projector lens, it came with an Ensign Lanterns slide projector, made for use in large halls. It's too long a FL for home projection, and the owner had used a 1860s 6" Squire Carte de Visite Petzval for that. I also have that lens which he'd had machined to fit the projector, it's a well corrected Petzval, no swirl.

My Aldis-Butcher lens is very sharp, they are flat field lenses, but I have a few other 12" lenses. Aldis made projection lenses for Xerox which is one reason why they were taken over by Rank.

Usually these Aldis projection lenses have a focus mechanism that isn't instantly apparent. If your lens is identical to the one in Belgium it doesn't.

Ian

 

[Marley's Ghost]

I have a 1930s Aldis-Butcher 12" Projector lens, it came with an Ensign Lanterns slide projector, made for use in large halls. It's too long a FL for home projection, and the owner had used a 1860s 6" Squire Carte de Visite Petzval for that. I also have that lens which he'd had machined to fit the projector, it's a well corrected Petzval, no swirl.

My Aldis-Butcher lens is very sharp, they are flat field lenses, but I have a few other 12" lenses. Aldis made projection lenses for Xerox which is one reason why they were taken over by Rank.

Usually these Aldis projection lenses have a focus mechanism that isn't instantly apparent. If your lens is identical to the one in Belgium it doesn't.

Ian

I don't think i did bad for a fiver ...

 

[Dave_P]

I'm no portrait specialist so these are just my youngest posing for test shots (he's not a professional model either). Heidosmat 180/3.5 (colour image) and Heidosmat 150/2.8 (the other one). Both pulled out of a knackered Rollei 6x6 projector for sod-all money. Neither of them have a diaphragm so it's wide open only, ride or die. The 150 is a triplet and the 180 is some other design and noticeably sharper. Currently got them both front-mountable on a Shanel 5A shutter. The 180 will also work on a 3x4 Graflex RB, but the 150 gets too close to the mirror for anything distant. The colour shot is Fuji CDU II tungsten E6 dupe film with a daylight correction filter, in case anyone is interested.

 

[Marley's Ghost]

Great images!

 

[Marley's Ghost]

So I now have the beast ... and by the Great Lord Harry it really is a monster! Shown here with my 1938 Leica for scale!
It looks fairly easy to get apart ... and I need to because internally it's very mucky. I think I'll need to make up an over size lens wrench as my normal one is WAY too puny. Plus some rubber jaws to clamp the barrel in my Workmate ...
I held it up on my Specialist and it looks as though it'll cover 5x7 several times over ... but I'll have to make a custom lens support as the monster weighs well over six pounds.
I will have to try and work some form of penetrating fluid between the barrel threads (aluminium) and the lens element holder threads (brass) as I wouldn't mind betting a bit of bimetal corrosion has helped lock them solid. Looks to be plenty of internal real-estate to fit Waterhouse stops/washers.
All in all a nice project for just sub a fiver!

Oh I bought a 213mm f9 Agfa Repromaster too ... for not much more cash ... so lots of barrel lens fun to come.

 

[Soulstar89]

I'm no portrait specialist so these are just my youngest posing for test shots (he's not a professional model either). Heidosmat 180/3.5 (colour image) and Heidosmat 150/2.8 (the other one). Both pulled out of a knackered Rollei 6x6 projector for sod-all money. Neither of them have a diaphragm so it's wide open only, ride or die. The 150 is a triplet and the 180 is some other design and noticeably sharper. Currently got them both front-mountable on a Shanel 5A shutter. The 180 will also work on a 3x4 Graflex RB, but the 150 gets too close to the mirror for anything distant. The colour shot is Fuji CDU II tungsten E6 dupe film with a daylight correction filter, in case anyone is interested.

View attachment 5631
View attachment 5632

Wow this is very very interesting Dave. You may have sparked my curiosity to investigate. My wista vx won’t allow these kind of lenses so an old camera body may be needed.

Nice pictures. The possibilies are intriguing

 

[Dave_P]

Wow this is very very interesting Dave. You may have sparked my curiosity to investigate. My wista vx won’t allow these kind of lenses so an old camera body may be needed.

Nice pictures. The possibilies are intriguing

Don't write your Wista off just yet. If you can hold of a big leaf shutter then there's hope. I got a Shanel 5a which luckily came mounted on a normal Wista/Linhof type board, then cobbled these lenses on the front.

The 150mm when you remove it from the projection housing has a 67mm thread on the rear of the front, so I bought a cheap nondescript ebay metal 67mm lens hood with a thread front and back to use as a sort of a thread extension, then put a normal 62-67mm step ring on the back of this. The resulting 62mm thread fits onto the front of my shutter (technically the shutter has a different thread pitch but it's close enough to work). The front-mount means the shutter is actually a lot closer to the film than 150mm.

For the 180, when this is removed from the projection housing the optical housing is clamped in which you remove, leaving you with a silver threadless cylinder, so it's necessary to get hold of a clamp mount. In this case another nondescript chinese thing, with a M65 thread on the rear. Then a 62-65mm step ring and bingo, you're in business with a normal field camera.

I use the same shutter for 10x8 with a cheaply acquired 18" TTH Cooke process lens mounted on the front, so really I'm SAVING money with all this crap...

 

[Soulstar89]

Don't write your Wista off just yet. If you can hold of a big leaf shutter then there's hope. I got a Shanel 5a which luckily came mounted on a normal Wista/Linhof type board, then cobbled these lenses on the front.

The 150mm when you remove it from the projection housing has a 67mm thread on the rear of the front, so I bought a cheap nondescript ebay metal 67mm lens hood with a thread front and back to use as a sort of a thread extension, then put a normal 62-67mm step ring on the back of this. The resulting 62mm thread fits onto the front of my shutter (technically the shutter has a different thread pitch but it's close enough to work). The front-mount means the shutter is actually a lot closer to the film than 150mm.

For the 180, when this is removed from the projection housing the optical housing is clamped in which you remove, leaving you with a silver threadless cylinder, so it's necessary to get hold of a clamp mount. In this case another nondescript chinese thing, with a M65 thread on the rear. Then a 62-65mm step ring and bingo, you're in business with a normal field camera.

I use the same shutter for 10x8 with a cheaply acquired 18" TTH Cooke process lens mounted on the front, so really I'm SAVING money with all this crap...

wow

 

[Nas]

I've played around with quite a few projector lenses over the years, mostly using them on a 5x4 Speed Graphic or Graflex Super D. For barrel lenses my preferred setup is a Sinar P/P2 monorail with Sinar leaf shutter. The front standard can easily hold my heaviest of lenses which weighs around 2KG.

 

[AnalogueWendy]

So now I know what this 18.5" Wray lens is good for?
How did the portraits work out @Marley's Ghost ?

 

[Marley's Ghost]

So now I know what this 18.5" Wray lens is good for?
How did the portraits work out @Marley's Ghost ?

I have to take it to the workshop and clean it internally - life has got in the way slightly!

 

[will1727]

So I now have the beast ... and by the Great Lord Harry it really is a monster! Shown here with my 1938 Leica for scale! View attachment 5637
It looks fairly easy to get apart ... and I need to because internally it's very mucky. I think I'll need to make up an over size lens wrench as my normal one is WAY too puny. Plus some rubber jaws to clamp the barrel in my Workmate ...
I held it up on my Specialist and it looks as though it'll cover 5x7 several times over ... but I'll have to make a custom lens support as the monster weighs well over six pounds.
I will have to try and work some form of penetrating fluid between the barrel threads (aluminium) and the lens element holder threads (brass) as I wouldn't mind betting a bit of bimetal corrosion has helped lock them solid. Looks to be plenty of internal real-estate to fit Waterhouse stops/washers.
All in all a nice project for just sub a fiver!

Oh I bought a 213mm f9 Agfa Repromaster too ... for not much more cash ... so lots of barrel lens fun to come.

Hi Mr Mg , i'm new on here have the same lens, the repro camera it came from also had a 135mm f8, with a 270mm f9 all part of a set they should cover at least 20"x 24" that was the size of the negs made with the camera these type of lenses where from if memory is correct , will make a lens board to fit to my Kodak model B which is a 7x5 half plate view camera similar to the Kodak specialist you have. I weighed it came in at just on 11lb , good lens with the model B, Kodak Ekta 203mm f7.7 in a epsilon shutter, looking forward to getting out with this monster of a camera, it came with a half plate film holder, just bought a 7x5 holder from the USA with another coming from Germany of the 13cm x 18cm size, like the size of the negs this camera will produce . Will in the NW of England .