7 inch Aldis Butcher lens

[Nas]

Does anyone have any info on a 7 inch f3.4 Aldis Butcher lens? The internet says it's a Cooke triplet design. Originally designed for 1/4 plate it covers 5x4. I fitted it to my Super D in a homemade lens board. Can't reach infinity, rear element protrudes too far. Furthest is around 2 metres. This is a test wide open. Foma 100 (expired 2022), ISO 50, developed in Rodinal 1+50.

 

[David M]

I find it hard to believe that anyone made a lens (except perhaps for a microscope or something similar) that couldn’t focus on infinity. Could you explain further, please?

 

[Nas]

I find it hard to believe that anyone made a lens (except perhaps for a microscope or something similar) that couldn’t focus on infinity. Could you explain further, please?

It’s to do with the distance from the rear element and the film plane. I’ve mounted this lens in an SLR camera which the lens was never designed to be used on. The internal mirror dictates the minimum distance I can place the lens from the film plane otherwise it would hit the rear element of the lens when the mirror flips up to make an exposure. You only have this problem with SLR cameras.

 

[David M]

I’m sorry, I still don’t understand. I do understand the difficulty with mounting lenses on cameras with a reflex mirror, but the sample image of a head is clearly on large format film. For a 7” lens, at infinity, that would mean roughly seven inches from film to (nominally) the lens board. Does the lens project more than seven inches behind?
Every LF 5x4 camera that I’ve encountered can cope with a 7” (more-or-less 180mm) with ease. There may be some specialist wide angle models that I don’t know about, of course.

 

[Ian Grant]

I'm surprised the 7" f3.4 Aldis-Butcher lens is quite a long standard lens for QP, one of my 5x4 Soho reflex cameras uses a 7" Cooke triplet in a sunken mount. My data says it's a Triplet, I have a similar age Aldis Anastigmat and it's a Triplet, but I think it uses different glasses to a Cooke Triplet.

I’m sorry, I still don’t understand. I do understand the difficulty with mounting lenses on cameras with a reflex mirror, but the sample image of a head is clearly on large format film. For a 7” lens, at infinity, that would mean roughly seven inches from film to (nominally) the lens board. Does the lens project more than seven inches behind?
Every LF 5x4 camera that I’ve encountered can cope with a 7” (more-or-less 180mm) with ease. There may be some specialist wide angle models that I don’t know about, of course.

LF SLRs have quite large mirrors. and they vary between manufacturers and the overall camera design.

I have 3 of 4 Butcher Popular Pressman/ICA Tudor QP SLRs and they use 135mm in a sunken mount, the ICA has a CZJ f4.5 Tessar. Thornton Pickard Ruby QP reflex cameras also use 5.75" lens in sunken mounts.

The Soho Reflex cameras have a mirror box that springs backwards and upwards as you press the shutter the mirror clears the rear lens element.

I guess it's just the combination of the lens and camera here. Early Cooke Triplet designs have surprisingly large thick (in terms of length) rear elements. In comparison later Cooke triple designs have quite a thin rear element.

Ian

 

[Nas]

The rear element on the back protrudes 30mm. The mirror is very large on my Graflex Super D and this lens was definitely not designed to work with it. I like the results so it's worth the limitation on focus distance to me. Other Cooke lenses I have all seem to have shorter rear elements but they're also mostly on cameras they were designed for.

 

[David M]

Aha! My apologies. I hadn’t spotted that you were referring to an LF reflex camera. Of course, that would create problems.

 

[Nas]

Finally got a dry day last weekend to test this lens on the street. Gale force winds didn't stop me but I did almost lose the camera a few times. Kodak TXP 320 (expired), developed in HC110 1+31 in a Jobo drum. Mostly around f4.5. Need to stop down more for two or more people but this is what testing is for.

 

[Ian Grant]

Excellent, you've gt me thinking Nas. I must start using wider apertures, I got out of the habit.

Ian.

 

[Dave_P]

Finally got a dry day last weekend to test this lens on the street. Gale force winds didn't stop me but I did almost lose the camera a few times. Kodak TXP 320 (expired), developed in HC110 1+31 in a Jobo drum. Mostly around f4.5. Need to stop down more for two or more people but this is what testing is for.

Just out of interest which Jobo drum are you using? I've not yet built up the courage to try 10x8 in a 2800-series drum or built up the capital to invest in an Expert drum and upgraded processing unit, but I can't help notice some dark stripes along the film rails on these images.

 

[Nas]

Excellent, you've gt me thinking Nas. I must start using wider apertures, I got out of the habit.

Ian.

Thanks, Ian. I do enjoy the shallow depth of field you get with large format. I rarely stop down very far.

 

[Nas]

Just out of interest which Jobo drum are you using? I've not yet built up the courage to try 10x8 in a 2800-series drum or built up the capital to invest in an Expert drum and upgraded processing unit, but I can't help notice some dark stripes along the film rails on these images.

I don't have the drum in front of me but it's the one which holds 2 x 2509n reels. I loaded 4 sheets in each with an empty slot in-between and I use a roller base and rotate manually. I see the lines on the edges, maybe I rotated too quickly?

 

[Dave_P]

I don't have the drum in front of me but it's the one which holds 2 x 2509n reels. I loaded 4 sheets in each with an empty slot in-between and I use a roller base and rotate manually. I see the lines on the edges, maybe I rotated too quickly?

Ah sorry, for some reason I had brain failure and thought these were on 10x8 (perhaps thinking of another recent thread). I do sometimes get a slight hint of line like this on my 2509n reels but for some reason never on E6, even filling all the slots on fast speed.