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Nikkor W 360mm f/6.5
- Thread starter Flack
- Start date
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2017
- Messages
- 377
That depends, in part, on how much bellows extension you have and how well you can see on a dark GG screen
Smaller format lenses are limited in their close-focus ability, because focus is achieved by a built-in helix which gives a fixed range. Large format lenses have no helix so that, as Joanna says, focus (both near and far) is limited by the bellows extension alone. As a mental exercise, you might imagine mounting the lens at one end of a drainpipe and the film at the other. Huge magnification but impractical. It’s possible that aberrations may degrade the image in extreme cases as designers must make assumptions about the most likely uses of the lens and optimise for that.
A major problem with close focus is that increasing the bellows extension to focus more closely will move the lens closer to the subject, thus changing the point of focus, which in turn means the lens must be moved to re-focus, which in turn moves the point of focus...
There are two ways around this. Firstly, use the rear standard only to focus, keeping the lens-to subject distance unchanged. Obviously, this depends on the construction of the camera. The second way is to decide on the magnification you want, calculate the extension required and move the whole camera back and forth to focus. The two methods can be used together, unless you need to achieve a very specific magnification.
Another difficulty is that with such a long lens, depth of field will be exceptionally small. I’m guessing that you will already know that.
This is one of the cases where a modern DSLR, using focus stacking, may be the weapon of choice.
A major problem with close focus is that increasing the bellows extension to focus more closely will move the lens closer to the subject, thus changing the point of focus, which in turn means the lens must be moved to re-focus, which in turn moves the point of focus...
There are two ways around this. Firstly, use the rear standard only to focus, keeping the lens-to subject distance unchanged. Obviously, this depends on the construction of the camera. The second way is to decide on the magnification you want, calculate the extension required and move the whole camera back and forth to focus. The two methods can be used together, unless you need to achieve a very specific magnification.
Another difficulty is that with such a long lens, depth of field will be exceptionally small. I’m guessing that you will already know that.
This is one of the cases where a modern DSLR, using focus stacking, may be the weapon of choice.
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2017
- Messages
- 3,430
Most 5x4 field cameras barely have enough bellows extension to use a 300mm lens. I have a 300mm f9 Nikkor M and while useable on my Wista 45DX there's no chance of focussing particularly close. Yes I could get or make a top hat lens board. however with that much extension the camera is quite unstable, the bellows acting as a sail if there's any wind, even slight.
It's worse if you stick a 1,420g 360mm Nikkor f6.5 lens on the end. Even on my MPP MicroTechnical MkIII cameras with their 18"triple extension, there would be little room for close focus.
Your,Rittreck is similar to my Toyo Half Plate Field camera, and the 360mm Nikkor would probably just focus at Infinity on my Toyo, you might be able to focus to about 8 metres with the Rittreck. One other disadvantage is the Copal #3 shutter, with a top shutter speed of 1/125.
It's better to go down the telephoto route, my 360mm f5.5 Tele-Xenar needs 210mm bellows extension at Infinity, so is way more practical.
Ian
It's worse if you stick a 1,420g 360mm Nikkor f6.5 lens on the end. Even on my MPP MicroTechnical MkIII cameras with their 18"triple extension, there would be little room for close focus.
Your,Rittreck is similar to my Toyo Half Plate Field camera, and the 360mm Nikkor would probably just focus at Infinity on my Toyo, you might be able to focus to about 8 metres with the Rittreck. One other disadvantage is the Copal #3 shutter, with a top shutter speed of 1/125.
It's better to go down the telephoto route, my 360mm f5.5 Tele-Xenar needs 210mm bellows extension at Infinity, so is way more practical.
Ian
Ian I know what you mean, I have made a top hat lens board for the Nikkor that does help with the bellows, but what also helps is the back standard movement. The Rittreck is a beast of a camera and lens when they are together, but manageable for now.
It’s a rather unusual choice of lens. The image circle is 494mm at f22 and infinity. That will grow as you increase the film-to-lens distance. You can’t possibly need that. And as Ian has already mentioned, it’s monstrously large for a 5x4 camera - it’s really intended for 10x8. Sinar provides a modular system that could be configured to work, but at a good deal of extra expense.
I’m curious to know why you’ve embarked on this project.
I’m curious to know why you’ve embarked on this project.
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I find the easiest way to test for this is to set the camera up at maximum extension and move the subject and not the camera.
It helps if the subject is a person, who you can ask to move backwards/forwards etc. until focus is achieved.
It helps if the subject is a person, who you can ask to move backwards/forwards etc. until focus is achieved.
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2024
- Messages
- 14
Most lenses are designed to close focus to about 10x - 12x their focal length. So a 360mm will close focus to about 3.6 meters without loss of quality. Beyond that you will have a rapid increase in the loss of quality. Should you wish to focus closer you will need to obtain an APO lens or use an enlarging lens optimized for 1:1. I use a 240mm EL Nikkor lens for macro photography with a 5x7 Agfa-Ansco.
As Ian Grant has pointed out, the limitations for close focusing are often in the bellows draw, so even an APO lens may be limited if your bellows aren't long enough. That is the purpose of telephoto lenses, by placing the nodal point in front of the lens they use less bellows draw to achieve the same focal length.
Another option is a top hat extension, also recommended by Ian, that extends the lens beyond the front standard. These are similar to those made for the Omega 4x5 enlarger for use with longer focal length enlarging lenses.
As Ian Grant has pointed out, the limitations for close focusing are often in the bellows draw, so even an APO lens may be limited if your bellows aren't long enough. That is the purpose of telephoto lenses, by placing the nodal point in front of the lens they use less bellows draw to achieve the same focal length.
Another option is a top hat extension, also recommended by Ian, that extends the lens beyond the front standard. These are similar to those made for the Omega 4x5 enlarger for use with longer focal length enlarging lenses.
I really don't intend to use this lens for close work, I just asked the question because I could not find the info searching the web. I got it to get a bit closer on landscape shots, I have made and 3d printed a top hat for this lens, I did this because the way the lens controls are laid out made it difficult to get to, and see the settings when mounted on a flat lens board in the Rittreck.
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2024
- Messages
- 14
Short answer: Most lenses are designed to close focus to about 10x - 12x their focal length. So a 360mm will close focus to about 3.6 meters without loss of quality.
Now I understand. You’re not planning to do actual macro photography. I too have difficulties with longer lenses and OoF foregrounds. I made a modest top hat, too.
A dental mirror is a useful thing for seeing and setting awkwardly placed shutters.
A dental mirror is a useful thing for seeing and setting awkwardly placed shutters.
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2020
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- 1,339
I find it is sometimes helpful to rotate the lensboard 90 degrees so that the settings are visible from the sides rather than top- and bottom. This is likely a useless strategy for people using recessed lensboards.
Linhof make (or used to make) a “comfort” lensboard with extended levers to ease this problem.It is staggeringly expensive. Otherwise, you can put small stickers or paint dots on the front surface of the lensboard. This doesn’t overcome the problem of poking your fingers into the small gap between lens and recess.
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2023
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- 432
It is however a stunning lens for 8X10,