Help/advice with Bellini E6 kit

Terry Jones

Terry Jones

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I am looking for anybody who might cast their eyes over the instructions for this kit as I find them somewhat ambiguous. The datasheet can be found here: https://www.bellinifoto.it/en/prodotto/kit-amateur-e6/

Questions I am looking for answers are:

Step 00. Presumably this means warm the tank in a water bath up to 38 deg prior to adding developer?
Step 01 wash. Is this done with water? Presumably...
Step 06 wash. Again, is this water? The 2nd page suggests washing the film 3 or 4 times in 1-2 litres of stabilizer? If true, what is the point of step 07?

Most instructions and videos I have seen for Tetenal and Arista kits all use water for washing but the comment about using 1-2 litres of stabilizer plus the fact that the kit has enough stabilizer concentrate for 10 litres makes me wonder if I am supposed to use that instead of water but that doesn't make sense.

I have emailed Bellini but no reply so far and there is zero information on anybody using it on other forums.

I have managed to obtain 20 4x5 sheets of Velvia 50 a song but don't want to ruin them. The Tetenal kit is unavailable so I couldn't use that even if I wanted to...

Any advice or pointers gratefully received.
 
Stabiliser is the last step, usually adds additional hardening and is an anti-fungicide.

The instructions state Stepp00 is dry no liquid warm the tank.
Step o1 is add the developer
Steps after Step 6 Fixer are water washes.

Ian
 
Ian,

'Dry process', I take to mean no water IN the tank but whatever means required to get it to 38deg. Hence my comment of sticking it in a water bath to warm it.

'Step 01 wash', I am referring to the wash after the 1st developer, is it a water wash? I guess so...

If the steps after 06 Fixer are water washes, then what to make of the comment at the top of page 2 "Use 1-2 litres of stabilizer at room temperature and wash the film 3 or 4 times changing the bath after each wash" - this part I don't understand as it implies using water with stabilizer in it to do the washes.
 
When I did a lot of C41 and E6 processing I would stand my loaded Paterson developing tanks in a bowl of water at around 40ºC and let them warm up, you don't want water in the tank. If the water is too deep the tanks float. I now have a Jobo processor that you can sit a tank in to warm as well.

The instructions suggest 3 water steps of 2 minutes with the suggested agitation, then 3 or 4 30 second washes with stabliser, the exact amount will depend on your tank.

Ian
 
Ok, that makes a lot more sense. Thanks for the help Ian, appreciated.
 
Just seen this, and I process all my E6 in Bellini now - 135 and 120 in the small Jobo tanks, manually inverting, and 10x8 on a manual roller base in a Jobo 3005.
Here's the screen grab of my lab timer times (although it says Stearman SP810 on the top, I also use these timings for continuous rotary development with the big Jobo tank when I have more than 2 sheets to process).

I go with about 7'10" as my first development time for both Fuji (both Provia and Velva 50) and Kodak E100 films (which was my time previously with the Tetenal kit), and have my waterbath at 40ºC. The prewash is water at 40ºC. All chemistry is about 38-39ºC; the water I try to keep at about 40C). This way, even with the Jobo not immersed in the waterbath, I still manage to keep the film developed well. If you're using immersion throughout then you just go with 38ºC for everything.

I factor in a bit more time with this method when I pour the chemistry in (through a diy right-angle funnel/hose while rotating the tank slowly - pic of that attached(!!) ), and the tank takes 20secs to empty. For 5x4 the Jobo tanks probably take about 10secs to empty.
First development is the only time-critical part of the operation since all the other steps run through to exhaustion for the film in the tank so over-time has no effect. I think last time I did 10x8 (same for 5x4) I started the timer after I'd filled the tank, and started pouring it off at about 7mins, so I went over time a little bit but no big problem esp. given not immersed. Your mileage might vary, as they say.

For stabiliser I just do what I did with the old Tetenal kit, which is to mix some up in a 1-2litre tray (10ml per litre I think it is) and dunk the sheets in that for a few mins, agitating them constantly for a bit to start off. Bellini kits are very generous with the stabiliser quantities.

The only issue I've had with doing a prewash with water (to warm up the film to maintain temperature) is that it changes the first developer colour to pink if I'm doing Ektachrome E100! For 135 and 120 I don't do a 1min prewash but just sit the tank for three mins in the water bath.

IMG_9753.PNG51096865717_194f300dc5_k.jpg
 
Dave,

Thanks for the comprehensive update. I will be exclusively developing Velvia 50, both in 120 and 4x5. I will be using a Paterson tank for the 120 and a Stearman for the 4x5. I have not purchased the Bellini kit yet as I wanted to fully understand the procedure first. Also, it is completely out of stock everywhere at the moment.

The kit instructions are not clear with regards to the final washes. Your timer shows one for four minutes and then one for two minutes. Is that empty the fixer, pour water, agitate for four mins, dump water, refill with water, agitate two mins then dump that?

One other question, what do you use for storage and have you any idea on longevity of the various solutions? I was planning on buying six one litre brown glass bottles and using the wine vacuum stoppers to try and extend the life of the chemicals - worth doing?
 
Thanks: those end washes: 2x 2 min water washes at dev temperature (so you'll need two bottles for this), followed by two minutes under the cold tap in the sink with the lid off the tank. Then remove the sheets of film to a tray with the stabiliser in (do not allow stabiliser to contaminate your developing tanks or reels).

Storage: I tend to try to discard after 6 months of use. My E6 gets used up pretty quickly anyway.
Bottles: glass only for first developer. Otherwise, brown plastic bottles. Jobo bottles for water washes. Mix stabiliser as needed (use distilled water for that, tap water fine for everything else).
Use Tetenal Protectan spray in the top before storing.
NB Label your bottles very visibly to avoid screw-ups. (I used coloured masking tape and a black sharpie, green tape for E6, orange for C41, labelling both the bottles and the tops.)
 
That’s the clarification I needed, thank you. Also helpful advice re the stabiliser, I would have carried that step out in the tanks if you hadn’t have mentioned it…

Now all I need is to get my hands on a kit and have a go.

Thank you to everyone for your input.
 
No worries:
Another quick thought (if this isn't obvious): getting the chemistry up to temperature always takes much longer than I anticipate.
Mixing up the kit using warm/hot tap water obviously saves time!
On subsequent occasions, getting the water bath and chemistry set up before doing anything else (e.g. loading the film into the tanks) saves a bit of time.

PS you can't have too many Jobo bottles! I tend to use these for actual developing most of the time, using the brown bottles simply for storage. Jobo bottles warm up quickly and have nice broad brims for quick pouring/unpouring (don't really use any funnels, except when using the big tank for 10x8 sheets). 1litre Jobo bottles more versatile than the smaller ones. Here are some of mine...!

50099995018_183e6b3f34_o.jpg
 
Yes, I need to have to invest in a lot more bottles to deal with the E6 chemistry. I am going to have to get a larger plasttic storage container for E6 as the one I use for C41 only has enough room for the tank and two bottles. I use a sous vide cooker identical to the CineStill one but have the price off ebay - works a treat.

I always start warming the chemicals well in advance of when I want to start as I keep them in our utiliy room because it is unheated. It can take a good hour to get them up to temp this time of year.

By the way, you mentioned not using stabiliser in the tanks. Is this really an issue? There is nothing in the data sheet for the kit that makes mention of this. If it is a problem, how do you deal with 120 film? Once taken off the reel it wants to cling to itself - I can't see how to stop that short of laying it flat in a massive tray.
 
For 120 and 135 film I just put it all in a 1l plastic jug with about 500-600ml stabiliser. It's fine.
 
It helps a lot with C41 and E6 if you have a plastic box like Dave's and a Sous Vide, not all Sous Vide go down to 38°c so be carful selecting one. Never go by the temperature indicator on the Sous Vide, always check with a good thermometer.
I have one of these, unfortunately prices have gone up quite a bit since I got mine

Fridge-or-freezer-thermometer-DT-2

Discover the precise electronic thermometer DT-2 by Termoprodukt, perfect for measuring temperatures from -30°C to 180°C. Perfect for liquids and gases.
termoprodukt.co.uk termoprodukt.co.uk
 
I already have these items thanks. I have been doing C41 for some time, now wanting to try reversal film. i purchased the Sous vide that is identical to the CineStill one but half the price and silver in colour. The temp control is spot on, very accurate.

Extra bottles and Bellini kit now ordered from First Call so early in the new year I will give it a go.
 
It's a pity the Photocolor Chrome 6 kits haven't been available for some years, they were brilliant and gave superb results. I used to process E6 & C41 most weekends when I still used film to shoot rock bands live. There is a need for a similar kit today.

Ian
 
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