Edge Of Darkness

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Ian-Barber

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Has anyone read "The Edge Of Darkness" by Barry Thornton and if so what was your opinion compared to say "The Negative"
 
Ian-Barber said:
Has anyone read "The Edge Of Darkness" by Barry Thornton and if so what was your opinion compared to say "The Negative"
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I have read the Adams book. I just got Thornton's. I'll try to reply when I've read or at least seriously skimmed it.
 
Ian-Barber said:
Has anyone read "The Edge Of Darkness" by Barry Thornton and if so what was your opinion compared to say "The Negative"
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I have read both. I don't believe they are directly comparable. Thornton's first book, Elements, was the one comparable to the Negative. In Elements he goes though the Zone System and the stages for achieving a fine print. The Edge of Darkness book is more a fuller exploration of various aspects of photography such as his look at depth of field on the enlarger baseboard, enlarger alignment, etc so not quite the same as the Negative. All three are excellent books for anyone trying to achieve high quality darkroom prints.
 
Is the Edge of Darkness more geared towards the Print than at the pictue making stage
 
"The Edge of Darkness" is about Thornton's obsessions, it's geared towards his own techniques. It's not worth buying to the extent you won't learn anything from it except Meopta Anater S enlarger lenses were excellent, but hey they were actually Schneider Comppnon S lens cells in an ABS barrel, and later Meopta made the ABS lens barrels for Schneider.

Personally, it was the most disappointing book I've bought or read.

Ian
 
Ian Grant said:
"The Edge of Darkness" is about Thornton's obsessions, it's geared towards his own techniques. It's not worth buying to the extent you won't learn anything from it except Meopta Anater S enlarger lenses were excellent, but hey they were actually Schneider Comppnon S lens cells in an ABS barrel, and later Meopta made the ABS lens barrels for Schneider.

Personally, it was the most disappointing book I've bought or read.

Ian
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Ah, interesting. Not woth dropping £35 on it then
 
£3.50 yes, £35 no, you'd be massively disappointed to have paid that much. It's worth a read, but it's not a book you'd refer back to.

Ian
 
It's more of an autobiography with photo tales and explanations, than a technical book as such. I enjoyed it and look forward to getting it back someday from the friend I loaned it to. :rolleyes: Possibly worth trying to order via your local library?

On your other post on his 2-bath developer, there's some info at the link below and Nik & Trick sell it as a kit.
www.pictorialplanet.com

Barry Thornton Two Bath etc

Photo
www.pictorialplanet.com www.pictorialplanet.com
 
Peter B said:
On your other post on his 2-bath developer, there's some info at the link below and Nik & Trick sell it as a kit.
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I have mixed up some 2 Bath and using it at the moment with 35mm and FomaPan 200. I am liking the results from it but would have liked to have read more about it from the author.

Is there much information about it in his book ?
 
Ian-Barber said:
I have mixed up some 2 Bath and using it at the moment with 35mm and FomaPan 200. I am liking the results from it but would have liked to have read more about it from the author.

Is there much information about it in his book ?
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Not really Ian, and he talks about other 2-baths as well. The Pictorial Planet video at the above link is worth a look for an independent assessment if you haven't watched it, so I've linked it here for easier viewing.
 
Barry Thornton wrote about his 2 bath developer in his book "Elements". He says the film is soaked in the first bath, which contains only the developing agent and the preservative, until it is saturated. 4 minutes. Then it is poured out and kept for further use. The second bath is then poured in. This is the accelerator. He agitated once, after 2 minutes, and poured it out,, after 4 minutes, when development was finished. He also kept the second bath for further use. He said development exhausted quickly in the highlight areas, where there was most activity. This kept the highlights in check. But development lasted longer in the shadows, allowing them to build up. Midtone development was proportional.
I used 2 bath for a while, but didn't like the idea of using and re-using both baths. I had the idea that the first bath was getting weaker and weaker, but carryover of the first bath into the second, made the second bath stronger. The results were ok, but it all seemed a bit hit and miss to me. Other photographers used different times for different subject contrast levels, and used it as a one shot, which made more sense and would seem to offer more control over the final contrast.
When I wrote to Barry to get more clarification, he replied saying he had only used 2 bath with Tmax 100, to correct a dip in its characteristic curve. He said that diluted perceptol was an overall better bet...and that was his developer of choice.

Alan
 
Ive been using it for a few week now mainly on 35mm. It's easy to mix and use. There is just something I am not liking when it comes to printing the negatives. They look a bit flat to me even on grade 3.

I did another test whereby I phoographed the same scene, developed 1/2 in Pyrocat HD and the other half in BT 2 Bath and printed them both on grade 3. The ones in Pyrocatd had a lot more punch to them.

These were on FomaPan 200 35mm so I may do the test again on HP5 to see if that makes a difference
 
Alan Clark said:
I used 2 bath for a while, but didn't like the idea of using and re-using both baths. I had the idea that the first bath was getting weaker and weaker, but carryover of the first bath into the second, made the second bath stronger.
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This is true. The first bath gets weaker with use as one might expect. More importantly, the second bath becomes a weak developer due to carryover and can develop film to a low contrast by itself without needing the first bath after a few uses (see https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/advice-on-my-two-bath-developer.181701/page-7#post-2423412 for an interesting discussion on this). In theory, this is not a bad thing, if designed properly, can be self-correcting. But I agree that a one shot first bath or one that doesn't get weaker with use (no development in the first bath) and a one shot second bath is preferable for getting consistent results.
 
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Hi Raghu. Thanks for confirming my suspicions. And welcome to the forum.

Alan
 
Ian-Barber said:
Ive been using it for a few week now mainly on 35mm. It's easy to mix and use. There is just something I am not liking when it comes to printing the negatives. They look a bit flat to me even on grade 3.

I did another test whereby I phoographed the same scene, developed 1/2 in Pyrocat HD and the other half in BT 2 Bath and printed them both on grade 3. The ones in Pyrocatd had a lot more punch to them.

These were on FomaPan 200 35mm so I may do the test again on HP5 to see if that makes a difference
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Have you tried extending the time in Bath A ? There is a pictorial planet youtube video dealing with BTTB and contrast.
 
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