Bellows for wista cameras

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Soulstar89

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Hey everyone.

I read in the manual that if I want to use a lens which is 125mm or below I will need a bag bellows. Upon doing research I find it’s rare to find new bag bellows. I did find something called universal bag bellows where the front it’s not as tightly conformed as bags bellows. I only saw one which is made in China. Is there anymore options? I have a wista 45vx

Cheers
 
I would try a shorter lens first and establish if the bellows are a problem in practice, rather than throwing money at a possibly theoretical-only problem - might be a case of the manufacturer trying to sell you more stuff! I'd be amazed if you needed bag bellows for a normal Plasmat-type 125mm lens on that camera or indeed any camera of that type, as it's not very short at all. Most 5x4" field cameras will, as a rough rule of thumb, work fine with a 90mm lens as that's a very popular length.
 
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The 45VX is a Technical camera, but as the front standard retracts into the body for folding you in theory could use a 65mm lens, the issue is it's so wide angle you'd include front part of the ttrackbed in the image.

Unless you are shooting archtiecture and needing extreme movements with a lens 75mm or shorter you don't need bag bellows. It's rare to need much movemens in terms of rise & fall, tilt, etc with 90mm or 75mm lenses.

Ian
 
First, have you tried this? 90mm is generally the longest focal length where bag bellows might begin to be needed. Most LF cameras will accommodate this. No point in spending money in something that won’t happen. The problem that bag bellows solves is that ordinary pleated ones compress into a rigid block, so that either the lens can’t move closer to the film, or one side locks up when you are using camera movements.
Some of these difficulties can be overcome by using a recessed lens board, which can be left in place. Much easier than partially dismantling the camera in the field. The price you pay is that it becomes rather fiddly to make adjustments to aperture and shutter speed.
So, before spending money, I think we’d all suggest giving it a go on your typical subject matter.
After that, if you do want to spend money, go to Custom Bellows.
 
Out of curiosity, I googled Wista vx.
I found this. Halfway down it says that the vx will handle 65mm lenses on a flat board. You are safe. Let’s hope I haven’t googled the wrong camera.

 
Brian wrote those pages to suggest how the is LF forum might be updated (the non Forum section).

The VX will focus lenses as short as 65mm on flat boards. Part of its friendliness to short lenses results from the overlapping two part rack which allowed Wista designers to shorten the bed. My VX came from Japan; the manual is in Japanese and an uneasy English. I believe it says that vignetting is a possibility with 65mm lenses, but that this can be overcome by using slight rise.

Brian hadn't tried a 65mm lens on a Wista VX, vignetting is where the lens has insufficient coverage, he's describing what I mentioned the front of the focus bed intrudes into the image. I use a Wista 45DX with a 65mm, but the difference is I have back tilt, so with a bit of back and front tilt, as well as front rise, I can work around it.

I also use a Graflex Super Graphic, later made by Toyo, and in many ways quite similar to the Wista 45VX, they are not practical with a 65mm lens, 75mm lens no problems.

Bag bellows aren't the issue, if more movements are needed a monorail camera is a way better option, and they can be remarkably cheap.

Ian
 
Hey peeps,

Thanks for the responses. I did try a 90mm on my wista VX but I didn’t test any movements. Silly that i forgot. I read through the manual and it did say that 65mm- 125mm is where bag bellows will help with movements. Everyones advise makes sense. i don't want to be throwing money at something i don't need. I will head back to aperture in town and play with movements to determine if its needed. I have a 150mm but i'm thinking i need a wider lens for interior shots. On 35mm film i use 28,35,50,85.

 
A very rough conversion from 35mm to 5x4 is to divide by three. This very approximate indeed and shouldn’t be relied on for serious work.

Having said all that, 28mm divided by three is 90.333… Unless you are using considerable camera movement, you should be safe.

There are tables available for more detailed conversions, but they vary. Some use the frame diagonal and some the longest side. As the formats differ in shape, neither is ideal.
 
The Wista manual wants you to buy bag bellows, however similar cameras like the Toyo 45A don't need them with a lens or a 75mm lens. In addition these technical cameras have slightly more restrictive movements than a field camera, which is still way less than a monorail.

The shorter the focal length of a lens, the greater the impact of any movements. So when I use my 65mm or 75mm lenses I need very little font tilt, which is typically the most used movement, along with slight rise or fall. Rise/Fall is often used in combination with tilts to keep within the lens image circle of coverage, and similarly swing and shift. Even a 90mm lens need little in terms of movements to correct verticals, keep foreground in focus etc.

Movements have greater importance with lenses in the 135mm to 210mm range, where lenses have less DOF and you need to use far more compared to wide angle lenses.

Ian
 
I'm actually able to successfully mount and infinity focus a 65mm on my Toyo 45a ii which just have standard bellows.
 
David M said:
A very rough conversion from 35mm to 5x4 is to divide by three. This very approximate indeed and shouldn’t be relied on for serious work.

Having said all that, 28mm divided by three is 90.333… Unless you are using considerable camera movement, you should be safe.

There are tables available for more detailed conversions, but they vary. Some use the frame diagonal and some the longest side. As the formats differ in shape, neither is ideal.
Click to expand...
Thanks for this David. Someone suggested I purchase a viewfinder app for my iPhone. Wow the headache of wondering how a focal length will look like is gone. Now the important part, deciding
 
Ian Grant said:
The Wista manual wants you to buy bag bellows, however similar cameras like the Toyo 45A don't need them with a lens or a 75mm lens. In addition these technical cameras have slightly more restrictive movements than a field camera, which is still way less than a monorail.

The shorter the focal length of a lens, the greater the impact of any movements. So when I use my 65mm or 75mm lenses I need very little font tilt, which is typically the most used movement, along with slight rise or fall. Rise/Fall is often used in combination with tilts to keep within the lens image circle of coverage, and similarly swing and shift. Even a 90mm lens need little in terms of movements to correct verticals, keep foreground in focus etc.

Movements have greater importance with lenses in the 135mm to 210mm range, where lenses have less DOF and you need to use far more compared to wide angle lenses.

Ian
Click to expand...
You are right Ian about wista wanting you to buy bag bellows.

I’ve not shot with a 90mm or lower just yet. I think they would favour when I shoot 6x12. Shame rental companies hardly stock 4x5 items. I can use the viewfinder to see framing which is amazing but won’t experience movements. No rush. My project started with the 150mm.
 
I've got an external viewfinder that is quite a good approximation to the coverage of my 65mm, it greatly helps composition as wide angles are always a pain to see on LF cameras screens.
 
Jonathan Hotopf said:
I've got an external viewfinder that is quite a good approximation to the coverage of my 65mm, it greatly helps composition as wide angles are always a pain to see on LF cameras screens.
Click to expand...
It really is. I bought one called viewfinder app for 5 pounds. Spent the morning searching for online stores in uk that have vintage lenses. Not many around. Searched the forum to check if any threads had been opened to help with places to look. Didn’t find any so I’ll start a thread later to help whoever is looking for large format gear
 
Soulstar89 said:
It really is. I bought one called viewfinder app for 5 pounds. Spent the morning searching for online stores in uk that have vintage lenses. Not many around. Searched the forum to check if any threads had been opened to help with places to look. Didn’t find any so I’ll start a thread later to help whoever is looking for large format gear
Click to expand...

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