Water Stop Bath And PyroCatHD

Ian-Barber

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From what I have read, when using a staining developer such as PyroCatHD, it is advisable to use a weaker solution of stop bath to preserve the staining.

Would it do any harm to replace the stop bath (Ilford Ilfostop) with ordinary water
 

Ian Grant

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#2
Stop bath is fine with Pyrocat it doesn't affect the staining at all, however many including Sandy King suggest using a half strength stop bath. A good water rinse is also OK it's all I've used for over a decade with Pyrocat HD

I sometimes use Pyrocat HD as a print toner, Ilford IT-* toner uses a Bichromate rehalogenating bleach followed by a wash then redevelopment in a simple Pyrocatechin developer, as this doesn't keep well I have used Pyrocat HD as I have it handy. I've experimented with old paper test strips and the staining is very resilient definitely unaffected by stop bath, acid fixers etc.

Ian
 

David M

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#3
I've not used Pyrocat, but I have given up stop bath in favour of a water rinse without any apparent problems. I suspect that the main virtue of a stop bath is to preserve the strength of the fix. I might be rather slovenly, and others may demand a more precise ending to development.
 

Ian Grant

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#4
I should have added that one reason for using water or weaker than normal stop bath is to lessen the chances of pinholes in emulsion caused by acetic or citric acid reacting with carbonate releasing carbon dioxide bubbles.

Most film developers don't use carbonate but Pyrocat does as do some other staining developers. It's more likely to be an issue with soft emulsions like the old EFKE films, possibly Foma.

Ian
 

Ian-Barber

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Most film developers don't use carbonate but Pyrocat does as do some other staining developers. It's more likely to be an issue with soft emulsions like the old EFKE films, possibly Foma.
So is it still ok to use water with Foma.
 

Ian Grant

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#6
Yes it's fine, I use water instead of stop-bath with all my films - Ilford, Foma, EFKE, Forte. I always use stop-bath when printing though.

Both Kodak and Ilford state you can either use stop-bath or a water rinse in their B&W film data sheets. I use two rinses with my Jobo (inversion) tanks).

Ian
 

KenS

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#8
Great, at least thats a bit more money saved
Ian there's one more way to save or perhaps I should say 'save the pennies... and use silver recovery.

When my fixer from both film paper and becomes 'well used', I pour it into a large brown-glass carboy. when the carboy becomes about 3/4 full, I add some used but not 'dead' developer and give the carboy a shake. you will eventually find a preciptate 'settling' to the bottom of the carboy. At this point I will syphon off most of the liquid (leaving room for more used fixer and required used-but not 'dead' developer solution ). Eventually you will end up with a very fine black "sludge" on the bottom of the carboy, known as "black silver" which is regarded as one of the purest 'forms' of silver which you can 'recover' by washing the sludge a number of time with clean water followed by the required time to wash a a few more times (I use about 6 'washings (with vigorous shaking and numerous 'settlings' that each are followed by syphoning off as much of the water as possible before a final wash before filtration of the liquid and the sludge contents. The last time I 'performed' this, one of my friends put it into a muffle furnace until it was 'liquified' and poured into a ceramic bowl to cool and 'solidify' into a silver 'blob' which was then sold to a jeweler.
Benefits? money into your pocket and less 'silver pollution' going into the sewer system (for which you will NEVER receive any monetary compensation). While It may take a year or more to recover enough to put a smile on your face... but the effort will eventually put some extra $$ back into your wallet for spending on more 'consumables'
You may also find the numerous water washings followed by syphoning off the water after the final 'settling' of the fine black "dust" somewhat of a slow process that takes both 'time and effort', but I think it is well worth the time and the effort.. but it does take Patience.. and it costs less than commercial silver-recovery 'systems'.

Ken
 

KenS

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Registered User
#9
Ian there's one more way to save or perhaps I should say 'save the pennies... and use silver recovery.

When my fixer from both film paper and becomes 'well used', I pour it into a large brown-glass carboy. when the carboy becomes about 3/4 full, I add some used but not 'dead' developer and give the carboy a shake. you will eventually find a preciptate 'settling' to the bottom of the carboy. At this point I will syphon off most of the liquid (leaving room for more used fixer and required used-but not 'dead' developer solution ). Eventually you will end up with a very fine black "sludge" on the bottom of the carboy, known as "black silver" which is regarded as one of the purest 'forms' of silver which you can 'recover' by washing the sludge a number of time with clean water followed by the required time to wash a a few more times (I use about 6 'washings (with vigorous shaking and numerous 'settlings' that each are followed by syphoning off as much of the water as possible before a final wash before filtration of the liquid and the sludge contents. The last time I 'performed' this, one of my friends put it into a muffle furnace until it was 'liquified' and poured into a ceramic bowl to cool and 'solidify' into a silver 'blob' which was then sold to a jeweler.
Benefits? money into your pocket and less 'silver pollution' going into the sewer system (for which you will NEVER receive 'enough' in the way of monetary compensation). While It may take a year or more to recover enough to put a smile on your face... but the effort will eventually put some extra $$ back into your wallet for spending on more 'consumables'
You may also find the numerous water washings followed by syphoning off the water after the final 'settling' of the fine black "dust" somewhat of a slow process that takes both 'time and effort', but I think it is well worth the time and the effort.. but it does take Patience.. and it costs less than commercial silver-recovery 'systems'.

Ken
 
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