On the shore line

martin henson

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Taken at Fewston reservoir in the Washburn Valley N.Yorkshire

1750

Zeroimage45 Pinhole camera
Fuji Acros 4x5 sheet film
Developed in Pyrocat HD
 

Alan9940

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Very nice image, Martin! Is that horizon tilted a bit or is that just my old, tired eyes? I have a MF pinhole camera arriving in the mail today...never used one...should be interesting and exciting!
 

David M

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Alan,
The horizon looks fine to me. It's the shape of the distant shoreline.
One of the delights of film photography is not being quite sure of what will emerge. A pinhole camera amplifies this uncertainty, although Martin's seem to be very well visualised.
 

martin henson

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Well I did use a spirit level on the camera, could be an optical illusion, or, tired old eyes ;)
 

Alan9940

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Well I did use a spirit level on the camera, could be an optical illusion, or, tired old eyes ;)
I figured you would have used some technique to ensure a level horizon. Must be all those wonderful lines that's causing my pee brain to see it as tilted. Or, maybe, I'm just tilting my head! :D
 

Ian Grant

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Actually it's not unusual for distant shorelines or the horizon where sea meets the sky to appear at an angle, it's due to distance. The far shoreline here isn't straight anyway due to the geography.

It's a personal choice whether you correct the apparent tilt, which is less than 0.5º anyway, the nature of the foreground takes the image composition in an anti-clockwise direction giving the illusion that the tilt is greater. I wouldn't have given it a second thought if someone else hadn't commented.

Martin you make good use of your Pinhole camera, I enjoy the images :D

Ian
 

David M

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I don't find this worrying at all. It's very well seen. Perhaps visual unease can arise where there's a bit more ambiguity than there is here. Like Ian, I can see no harm in making a tiny adjustment to give a more "settled" image. But just as water lies flat, trees have a tiresome habit of standing upright, so care is needed if there are any in the frame. Skew, rather than Rotate if you are working digitally?
 

Alan9940

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Ian, thanks for the explanation...we don't have many shorelines out here in the desert. ;) I'm sure it's "off" by only a very little and I've seen this apparent tilting of the horizon in other photographs, but I'm one of those people who sees a framed anything hanging on a wall that's off level by 3 - 6mm and it bugs me to no end! ;)

David - I'm not implying that it's not a well seen image. For fact, I really like it.
 

Ian Grant

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I have 3 images on the wall from a current exhibition set and the sea/horizon interface is at quite an angle in each. It seems to be the affect of distance.

Ian
 

Alan Clark

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It's perspective. If a straight shoreline is at an angle to you and is below your eyeline, then it will appear to slope upwards towards the far distance.
If your eyeline is below the shoreline level then you are drowning....

Alan
 

Ian Grant

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I agree it's perspective however in all my images the slope is the other way downwards :D



Ian
 

David M

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Yes, it's a perspective effect. If a straight shoreline is at an angle to the viewer, the nearest part will be lower in the frame. It can easily look like a sloping horizon, particularly if it extends right across the frame. If however, the shoreline is not straight, the land/water boundary will curve and the illusion is much less strong, or vanishes altogether.
I don't know that Ian's wallet was so heavy.
 

martin henson

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The line is from PS guide, the horizon goes straight then starts to drop at the left side, that's because that far side is not on the same line, the reservoir is turning and coming back on itself, if that makes sense.

1753
 

Ian Grant

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I don't know that Ian's wallet was so heavy.
It's not from money, maybe the Organ donor card tips the balance :D


The line is from PS guide, the horizon goes straight then starts to drop at the left side, that's because that far side is not on the same line, the reservoir is turning and coming back on itself, if that makes sense.
It's a nit picking discussion, I would most likely leave as is as Martin's done. It's the way lenses render perspective and something we see and capture with LF cameras.

Ian
 

David M

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Well, it's really that branch that makes the image.
I'm not sure if it's quite nit-picking. There's a more general point about translating a three-dimensional scene, observed with binocular vision, into a flat image space. A higher viewpoint would have clarified the geometry of the distant shoreline, but perhaps not have improved the aesthetic impact. This isn't a recommendation to Martin, just a bit of musing about the decisions we have to take behind the ground glass. ( – or, in this case, behind the spirit-level.)
But I do think we might have squeezed this particular case dry.
 

Alan9940

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Thanks, Martin. I agree that the discussion around my initial comment is done and probably unnecessary...sorry I even said anything.
 

Alan Clark

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I hope this doesn't mean we can't make further comments about this very nice photograph. I looked up Zero image pinhole cameras and see that they do a 5x4 with stacking sections, which presumably allow you to change the width of view -focal length - of the set-up. I wonder if this was what you used Martin, and if you had used a lens, what focal length would it have needed to be to get the same width of view as you achieved in the photo. And further, you are getting something here that you don't get with a camera with a lens. And I don't just mean an overall lack of sharpness. Can you tell us how you see it? What do you feel you get from a pinhole photograph like this when you look at the original photograph, that you don't get with a conventional photograph?
I have never got into pinhole photography, but I do have a precision pinhole, acquired several years ago, and would be happy making a suitable box to mount it on. Having seen other excellent pinhole images by Martin, I would be happy if he could offer me some advice on the way forward here.

Alan
 
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