Close-up lenses

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alexmuir

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I thought it best to start a new thread about this.
I've added two versions of the same shot. I used a Rodenstock Sironar 150mm lens. I cannot recall the aperture used, but I wanted the objects in the background out of focus. I used an un-named Japanese close-up lens which was either +1, or +2 Diopters. Supp 1.jpg
Scan from 5x7" print of 4x5" negative on Fomatone Chamois, developed in Tetenal Eukobrom.

Supp 2.jpg
As above, but toned in sepia, followed by gold chloride.

Alex


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Keith Haithwaite

Keith Haithwaite

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I think this thread would be better in the Still Life & Close Ups section Alex, perhaps Ian could move it if it's ok with you.
 
Keith Haithwaite

Keith Haithwaite

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For anyone who read my comments (rant) about close-up lenses in Martins post here http://www.5x4.co.uk/threads/single-holyhock.435/ I have to eat humble pie and admit I was wrong in my condemnation based on my previous attempts at using close-up lenses with large format lenses. :)

I 'borrowed back' a set of lenses I gave away a couple of years ago and tried to recreate the tomatoes shot from the above post. I'm not sure if it's the same set of lenses but this is yesterdays effort and I am impressed. It was only a quick lash-up and as I was working on tiptoe trying to see on the GG I screwed up the composition but I think the result is more than acceptable to prove I was wrong. :) It was also a test shot for Pyrocat-HD using a Minimum Agitation technique.
Tomatoes_LF+CU-1.jpg

The technical details are:

Fomapan 100 at ISO 100. 150mm lens + 1 dioptre close-up lens
Lens to subject distance I guess was about 350mm, bellows extension 220mm
Aperture was f22, shutter speed adjusted for bellows ext + reciprocity failure was 3 seconds
Developed in Pyrocat-HD using the Minimum Agitation technique
 
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alexmuir

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That looks good, Keith. The Stroebel book suggests that the best results are obtained at the optimum aperture for your lens which is likely to be around f22. I have to say that I would not have expected to be using supplementary lenses, but for the comments in that book. I had previously written them off as unlikely to produce good results.
Alex


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Ian Grant

Ian Grant

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I know this is an old thread but there's one lens that's ideal for close up work and it rarely gets mentioned - the Kodak 203mm f7.7 Ektar, These lenses are usually quite cheap they are optimised for Infinity to 1:1 Kodak Ltd (UK) sold them post WWII as general purpose lenses with their Half plate cameras and also with their medical cameras for up to 1:1. They are dialyte design so 4 elements and six internal air/glass surfaces so coating is needed to prevent any contrast drop - they are all coated the earlier uncoated version is called a Kodak Anastigmat.

They were made in the US and also the UK, the US versions are nearly all in Supermatic shutters, while the UK ones are in standard #0 sized shutters - early ones were in a Kodak Epsilon shutter, then a Prontor SVS and very late in a Compur. Only the Compur has a preview lever so you need to use B and a cable release with the Prontor or Epsilon.

I have a couple of these 203mm lenses they are very sharp, one's in a Prontor, the other is a very late US version in a Graphic Compur #1 shutter which luckily has a preview. These really are quite over looked lenses.

Ian
 
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Ian-Barber

Ian-Barber

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Ian Grant said:
I know this is an old thread but there's one lens that's ideal for close up work and it rarely gets mentioned - the Kodak 203mm f7.7 Ektar, These lenses are usually quite cheap they are optimised for Infinity to 1:1
Click to expand...
I have read about these but as of yet not seen one appear in the UK eBay site
 
Ian Grant

Ian Grant

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Ian to look at they don't seem very special, such small lenses and I think the f7.7 aperture puts people off but actually is easy to work with.



Tom, the one on MW Classic's website is in an Epsilon shutter, these are the earliest of the Epsilons modified by Kodak but not know for reliability.

Ian
 
Ian Grant

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These were designed to cover Half Plate and 7x5 with some room for movements so there's plenty of coverage for 5x4 use. Kodak never published image circles for their lenses.

They were sold as 8" f7.7 Ektars in the US in Supermatic shutters although my late US version is marked 203mm. US made shutters don't match the European size standards but if you spot one cheap from the US remember Import Duty, VAT etc can add 33% !!!!

Ian
 
Ian Grant

Ian Grant

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I swapped the left hand 203mm Ektar for something else earlier this yearvwith another member here however I'd already acquired another with a Kodak Specialist 2. My new one is in a Kodak Epsilon shutter, these aren't the best shutter but mine works fine.

The one on the right in the photo came from the US, it was cheap ($35) because it's slow shutter speed were sticky, easily sorted in less than 2 mins. This one's a very late version after Kodak had dropped the Supermatic shutter so it's in a Compur #1. The last British made 203mm Ektar's are in a Compur #0.

Ian
 
Ian Grant

Ian Grant

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Other options for close up to 1:1 would be Apo Ronar, G Claron, and similar. The Apo Ronar and early G Claron lenses are Dialyte type lenses like the 203mm (8") f7.7 Ektar. Rodenstock Apo ronar's and Schneider G Claron's in 150mm and longer focal lengths were sold as budget lenses in shutters.

Lenses longer than 210mm are problematic for close up work with a 5x4 camera, there's not enough bellows extension to get to 1:1 with field cameras, just enough with a Technical camera. Most field cameras are double extension, that means extesnion is twice the "normal! focal length so typically 12"/300mm as 150mm is assumed as a typical standard lens. Technical cameras Linhof Technica, MPP MicroTechnical, and similar are Triple extension so 18"/480mm max extension.

I made some images last Autumn testing some lenses close up, my 240mm Nikkor W was useless, my 210mm Symmar OK, my 150mm Sironar N much easier, the only reason I didn't use the Ektar's was they are in different sets of kit (wrong type of lens boards)

There are other considerations because choice of FL affects depth of focus, so sometimes longer is beneficial, but there's also practicalities. The more you go towards 1:1 the shorter Focal Lengths become more practical with LF cameras. Schneider were selling Comonon enlarger lenses for macro work mounted in shutters, they still do, So I've mounted the cells from a spare 135mm Componon in a Compur shutter to test shoot with my next poppy crop :D

Close up work with LF is quite different to 35mm/120, with LF the camera's themselves pose restraints that you have to work within.

Ian
 
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