35mm question

Discussion in 'Talk About Developing Film' started by LEO, Jan 21, 2018.

  1. LEO

    LEO Member Registered User

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    Hi all just developed 2 rolls of 35mm one foma 200 and the other apx 100 both came out sparkling clear with no images no numbers nothing? I've never had this happen could someone enlighten me?
    if I dev a roll of film the numbers should be there?
    thanks in advance for assistance.

    leo
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2018
  2. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Active Member Registered User

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    Sounds like you've made a mistake with the developer. Sometimes edge numbers don't show up or can be very faint, this used to be an issue with Ilford, However when Agfa pulled out of the market Ilford bought their edge numbering machine. If that was modern APX100 from AgfaPhoto (rather than Ahga Gevaert) it was actually made by Ilford.

    Ian
     
  3. LEO

    LEO Member Registered User

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    thanks Ian its old stock Gavaert, I've just done a new batch of dev check it out see how this one comes out
    I used the developer a few days ago and was fine on my 4x5 negs maybe it was spent?
    surely there would be a faint number? I'm baffled
     
  4. David M

    David M Active Member Registered User

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    I once took pictures of the North of England Onion Growers Final exhibition. Naturally, they were the finest pictures I have ever taken. I got blank negs, and I'd simply used the solutions in the wrong order. Never again! I have different coloured containers for each solution nowadays.
    I can't suggest anything else, I'm afraid, unless your developer had become contaminated in its first use. Don't most people use one-shot development? I don't know. Would someone like to let us know?
    This reminds me of the long-running debunking of the Robert Cape melted-emulsion legend by AD Coleman. I am not suggesting any parallels with Leo. The situations are entirely different.
     
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  5. martin henson

    martin henson Admin Staff Member Registered User

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    Could it be a fault with the camera, did it actualy take any images !!
     
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  6. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Active Member Registered User

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    You should have a developed leader as well as the edge markings even if the camera was malfunctioning. It's usually an process error.

    Ian
     
  7. KenS

    KenS Active Member Registered User

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    Ma
    The film 'brand' and frame numbers being now 'in absentia' indicate that the film was 'fixed' without any development. Asking how I know? I have to somewhat 'sheepishly' admit that I have made the same 'mistake'

    Ken
     
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  8. LEO

    LEO Member Registered User

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    I have been using rodinal from foma maybe the dev was completely spent ?
    i did develop the next roll in fresh dev but then this happened?
    lots of hairline cracks? HEEEEELP ;-) 00 1 6.jpg
     
  9. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Active Member Registered User

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    That looks like reticulation, you need to keep the whole process +/- 1º C of your chosen development temperature (usually 20ºC) that includes washing.

    Ian
     
  10. David M

    David M Active Member Registered User

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    Was the dark stripe at the top part of the original scene, or is it only on the film?
    A similar pattern (reticulation) used to be caused by extreme and sudden temperature changes but I understood that modern film resisted this. I've only seen it once, and a very long time ago.
    Are they cracks or some sort of deposit on the film? Being lighter suggests something opaque. There are also some dust spots. Are you re-using Rodinal? My apologies for only asking questions.
    Despite the glitches, it's a lovely picture.
     
  11. Ian-Barber

    Ian-Barber Admin Staff Member Registered User

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    Does this also apply to staining developers Ian
     
  12. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Active Member Registered User

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    Some modern films are still prone to reticulation, Fuji Acros is one particularly in Rodinal. when Agfa merged with Gevaert in 1964 they re-formulated Rodinal it now contains free Hydroxide, this can soften emulsions making the potential for reticulation high.

    The old Tmax 400 was another prone to it. A few years ago a friend did some photos of me working in the landscape for a magazine he processed the 120 Tmax 400 in my darkroom, using my replenished Xtol, stop & fix. the results were appalling, excessive grain, I realised he hadn't checked the temperature of the stop bath, fixer or wash water. My 35mm Tmax 400 negatives processed just after were perfect. The 120 film was part of my own sock and other rolls from the same batch were perfect so it was just a temperature issue.

    While most modern films are well hardened and won't reticulate there's a phenomenon called "micro reticulation" Kodak preferred to call it surface artefacts, essentially it's a mild form of reticulation that affects the gelatin super coat of a film, it affects glossy papers as well causing dull spots. It was a big problem with Kodak colour films and the early digital minilabs causing excessive graininess in prints, it could be overcome by wet mounting for scanning. Kodak did a lot of research to improve emulsion hardening, they state that improvements make their films better for scanning.

    It's not affecting the actual grain structure of the film, but printing or scanning through the surface artefacts gives more apparent graininess. In the case of the 120 film I mentioned there's an anti-curl gelatin coating on the rear and you get micro reticulation both sides.

    If you want high quality results you need to keep temperatures under tight control.


    Applies to all developers, B&W and Colour and every processing step including washing.

    Ian
     
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  13. David M

    David M Active Member Registered User

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    I remember watching John Davies develop his film at Duckspool. He was fanatical about accurate temperature control. If you saw his gigantic print at the Towner Gallery, you can see it was worth it.

    The marks on Leo's film look like fine fibres rather than crazy paving or pseudo-grain. Is this significant?
     
  14. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Active Member Registered User

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    Yes, John Davies is right to be fanatical about temperature control. It comes from seeing students using the same films in the same developers etc and getting wildly different results particularly in terms of the graininess of their prints.

    I'm quite familiar with John's work, I wrote a long critical essay about it for my MA back around 2002.

    Tight temperature control is fairly easy, when I process films in Turkey I have to work at 27ºC that's the ambient water temperature for about 9 months of the year, cooling isn't practical when the air temperature can be over 40ºC. I found I was keeping to within +/- 0.2ºC with no effort. It's not quite so easy here in the UK where tap water temperatures vary so much more but some large jugs and a kettle are enough to keep to the +/- 1ºC

    Ian
     
  15. LEO

    LEO Member Registered User

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    Firstly, thank you all for your helpful comments,
    My conclusions are that the dev was spent in my first instance... I usually use D76 and I can judge it a bit better as i see my negs get thinner I change it ;-)
    Love to know how everyone else judges their developer stop and fix?

    My second attempt, after losing two quality film ;-)
    I pulled the rodinal from the fridge and mixed a new batch at 1-100, my normal temp of fix and dev can exceed 26deg most days as we live in the land down under its hot really HOt here in summer.
    Id say you would be spot on that my dev would have been around the 20 deg mark and everything else would have been 26-28
    I still love the image! better a cracked one than no image at all!

    thanksfor @David M for appreciating the image
     
  16. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Active Member Registered User

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    I'd avoid Rodinal in that kind of heat, there's a German practice to use it a16º C to avoid problems and they claim it minimises grain. It just helps prevent the film swelling as much and the potential of surface reticulation, I never had problems at 20º C. I'm sure the free Hydroxide will have softened the emulsion.

    When I process films in Turkey I stick to 27º C but I'm using Pyrocat HD which has a tanning (hardening) effect. D76 should be OK at that temperature.

    I assume you're re-using the D76 and increasing the dev times after each film, I alawys used ID-11 replenished which is very consistent once ripened (after a few films have been processed. Ilford no longer make replenisher however they do now publish information on replenishing with fresh developer. You could buy a 5 litre pack use 2.5 litres as working stock and the rest for replenishing. Xtol would be better still as that's self replenishing, I worked that way with it for about 20 years.

    Judging negatives is experience, also pays to compare side by side see if they look a bit thin or heavy or if the contrasts changed. Stop bath lasts a long time, I use pH papers, fixer use 35mm film leader check the clearing time isn't getting too long keep a note roughly how many films you've fixed, Ilford give recommended number in their data sheets.

    Ian
     

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